>The depiction of the right remaining where it is from 2008 to 2021 is misguided at best.
As I mention here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31206510 it has been objectively measured. There have been quite a number of leftist political commentators who recently have been offended that they are labelled right-wing now. Bill Maher or Russel Brand for examples.
Carlos Maza before his disgrace wrote on the subject @vox and he basically argued that obama and truman were the same politically. That's rather insane, sure they did start a bunch of wars and bomb countless civilians. I on the otherhand don't recall Obama threatening to draft the people in a union on strike into the war. I also suspect truman and obama's stances on immigration are slightly different LOL.
Dont get me wrong. I can certainly see both parties moving left. LGBT rights are a key example. There's nothing wrong with moving left.
>The party of George Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney is the same as the GOP today is incorrect.
I would agree.
George W Bush for example actively voted against gay marriage. Even planned to make a constitutional amendment to protect marriage from homosexuals. He banned homosexuals from boy scout. I can just imagine how horrified Bush is about it being Scouts now. Even was of the opinion that it's not possible to commit a hate crime toward a gay.
Do you feel this new republican party is going the right direction of LGBT rights? I think so. I applaud Trump here.
>I believe that this depiction only makes sense for Elon if a different right endpoint is used - where the right is closer to Ron Paul and the left is instead the caricature at the extreme that the comic portrays.
I think that's kind of the point. Objectively the far right hasn't changed much at all. In fact the common argument is that the far right has moved slightly left since that time. Which on 1 issue I clearly show the shift. Not the other way around like you suggest.
>It wouldn't surprise me if the Democratic Party has shifted to the more authoritarian end of the Y axis of the political compass - increased regulation in the wake of corruption and the increased power of corporations.
Bill Maher I believe made this point. That the left has gone so far left that everything to the right of them look right wing. You can identify this by seeing democrats like you say here.
Political compass was questionable for some time, but it's interesting to see it here. They are offensively wrong for canadian politics.
If you see your entire political spectrum as right-wing authoritarian. That's a problem with the graph. If you're going to produce a poor graph like this you have to justify it. They dont.
The failure largely speaking is that the left vs right false dichotomy. But political compass is also self-biasing from a far left position.
Hawkins in left libertarian should be bottom left corner. The graph is biased by that much.
In a way the political polarization is visible in those graphs. It's also interesting to see why. They do the analysis by finding answers to questions. "What is your stance on abortion, gun rights, etc." and then plot.
But if you self-biased based on your own political beliefs by only asking certain questions. Then you end up showing your bias and not the political plot of politicians.
>However, that completely ignores the shift of the the majority of the rest of the Republican Party to the top right corner.
Elon very clearly understands what is wrong. I would put money on a bet that he understand better than I do.
The censorship and failure in communication have produced echo chambers which artificially pushed the left-wing toward the far left. Afterall what happens if the left-wing only talks to the left wing? Of course their discourse without dissent will shift left. We haven't measured it, but right-wing echo chambers would do the same thing.
What do you think the consequences will be when the right-wing shifts far right? Elon wants to fix the problem before this happens.
> There have been quite a number of leftist political commentators who recently have been offended that they are labelled right-wing now. Bill Maher
Was never a leftist, or a political commentator with any coherent ideology at all. AFAICT, he was only ever painted by some as a leftist because of the Right painting everyone who wasn't in lockstep with the racist war fury of the early 00s as “leftist”, and because being a comedian when the Republican Party was at a local maximum of control, for a while all the easy targets for his contrarian humor were in the Right.
And he’s evolved on the positions that got him perceived as leaning left then, becoming more positive retrospectively on the Iraq War, more Islamophobic over time, etc., more openly supportive of foreign dictatorships in general.
Brand I’ve not paid much attention to, but he never struck me as particularly leftist, either.
>Was never a leftist, or a political commentator with any coherent ideology at all.
He labels himself a leftist. His views are commonly left of center. He lives in leftyville california. He went to Cornell which doesn't produce republicans. I watched him on politically incorrect, but I only see the odd show here and there since he went to real time on hbo. I would say he's a lefty. I very much doubt there's any air of caricature in his public persona. I do believe he has been legitimate in his beliefs. Better yet makes tons of funny jokes.
If on the subject of political polarization of the left-wing has you saying Bill Maher is right wing. I rest my case.
>Brand I’ve not paid much attention to, but he never struck me as particularly leftist, either.
Like I know Bill Maher is left of center. Brand is left of him.
Lets not forget the bernie bros who are suddenly right wing as well, joe rogan, jimmy dore, kenosha shooter guy.
The point to take away. If you think "the right" are racist war fury and islamaphobic. You should leave your country. There's somewhere else that is better for you. "the right" are your fellow countrymen, they are on your team. Do you know of lots of your country people that you like are moving somewhere? Europe, Japan/Korea? Australia? Germany? Perhaps you should reach out to them. See if it's really better?
As I mention here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31206510 it has been objectively measured. There have been quite a number of leftist political commentators who recently have been offended that they are labelled right-wing now. Bill Maher or Russel Brand for examples.
Carlos Maza before his disgrace wrote on the subject @vox and he basically argued that obama and truman were the same politically. That's rather insane, sure they did start a bunch of wars and bomb countless civilians. I on the otherhand don't recall Obama threatening to draft the people in a union on strike into the war. I also suspect truman and obama's stances on immigration are slightly different LOL.
Dont get me wrong. I can certainly see both parties moving left. LGBT rights are a key example. There's nothing wrong with moving left.
>The party of George Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney is the same as the GOP today is incorrect.
I would agree.
George W Bush for example actively voted against gay marriage. Even planned to make a constitutional amendment to protect marriage from homosexuals. He banned homosexuals from boy scout. I can just imagine how horrified Bush is about it being Scouts now. Even was of the opinion that it's not possible to commit a hate crime toward a gay.
Flipside, Trump went around the world promoting LGBT rights and brought the fight to the middle east and russia to decriminalize being LGBT. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-adm...
Do you feel this new republican party is going the right direction of LGBT rights? I think so. I applaud Trump here.
>I believe that this depiction only makes sense for Elon if a different right endpoint is used - where the right is closer to Ron Paul and the left is instead the caricature at the extreme that the comic portrays.
I think that's kind of the point. Objectively the far right hasn't changed much at all. In fact the common argument is that the far right has moved slightly left since that time. Which on 1 issue I clearly show the shift. Not the other way around like you suggest.
>It wouldn't surprise me if the Democratic Party has shifted to the more authoritarian end of the Y axis of the political compass - increased regulation in the wake of corruption and the increased power of corporations.
Bill Maher I believe made this point. That the left has gone so far left that everything to the right of them look right wing. You can identify this by seeing democrats like you say here.
>https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008
Political compass was questionable for some time, but it's interesting to see it here. They are offensively wrong for canadian politics.
If you see your entire political spectrum as right-wing authoritarian. That's a problem with the graph. If you're going to produce a poor graph like this you have to justify it. They dont.
>https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
The failure largely speaking is that the left vs right false dichotomy. But political compass is also self-biasing from a far left position.
Hawkins in left libertarian should be bottom left corner. The graph is biased by that much.
In a way the political polarization is visible in those graphs. It's also interesting to see why. They do the analysis by finding answers to questions. "What is your stance on abortion, gun rights, etc." and then plot.
But if you self-biased based on your own political beliefs by only asking certain questions. Then you end up showing your bias and not the political plot of politicians.
>However, that completely ignores the shift of the the majority of the rest of the Republican Party to the top right corner.
Elon very clearly understands what is wrong. I would put money on a bet that he understand better than I do.
The censorship and failure in communication have produced echo chambers which artificially pushed the left-wing toward the far left. Afterall what happens if the left-wing only talks to the left wing? Of course their discourse without dissent will shift left. We haven't measured it, but right-wing echo chambers would do the same thing.
What do you think the consequences will be when the right-wing shifts far right? Elon wants to fix the problem before this happens.