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> There's no question that there are synergies between Tesla and SpaceX in our futures," she said. "There's a convergence of what we're all trying to accomplish in the future."

Accomplish a ludicrous valuation above all else?


Elon's payout depends on it

If you apply Occam’s razor, this explanation stands out.

If anyone thinks there’s any reason other than this, it’s a clear sign they’re incapable of critical thought.

I think there are other reasons and am capable of critical thought. A variety of synergies have been discussed publicly for at least 9 years. This article lists several of them.

In the sense that you can claim two things are synergies by just saying they are, sure.

Whereas in reality automotive companies do not organically have rocketry divisions.


If anyone thinks there's only one reason, it's a clear sign they're incapable of critical thought.

I can see:

- self-driving ai stuff (above the) cloud

- starlink connecting to cars instead of cellular (in addition to?)

- robots in space


Yeah I'm definitely questioning what synergies there are between Tesla and SpaceX. What do electric cars and rockets have in common? Are they going to me a rocket powered car? Put a Tesla on the moon?

The only thing I can think that makes any sense at all is Teslas coming with Starlink terminals built in. That seems like a stretch though.


Tesla claims to be pivoting away from cars in favour of producing their Optimus robots. And SpaceX's IPO valuation appears to be predicated on them being an AI datacentre company.

So I guess the "Musk plays 4d chess" view would be that there are obvious synergies between humanoid robots and AI.

Ugh. Honestly, that makes it seem worse than the purely cynical financial engineering takes.


Tesla has a problem. Its sky-high valuation is based on the potential upside from “visionary” sci-fi future programs. However, the narratives are losing credibility.

Once upon a time, Robotaxi and Optimus sounded like visionary futuristic ideas. However:

We now live in a world where Waymo exists, and autonomous taxi hasn’t proven to be as socially transformative as promised. No huge latent market exposed. Aslo, Tesla is lagging behind.

We now live in the world where Unitree exists, and is shipping! Again, Tesla is on the back foot. The technology no longer seems quite so futuristic. Disruptors usually disrupt from down-market— that puts BYD cars and Unitree robots in the better position.

With a merger, the joint sci-fi future proposition is colonies on Mars. That one is likely to stay in the future for a long time. From a stock valuation point of view, the goal is for the promise to be forever in the future. That way, the investor thinks the upside is still to come. Once the promise is delivered, it’s time to cash out.


Fantastic write up. To what degree is all of capitalism actually built on this premise? Why can't I buy the same damn running shoes I bought in 2015? Why can't I buy a dumb TV?

> autonomous taxi hasn’t proven to be as socially transformative as promise

That's because they are still super expensive - more expensive than Uber!

That's probably partly because the technology is very expensive, but also because they have no competition. Both of those will eventually change.


But why are robots and LLMs connected? The only reason why a robot feels more connected to AI than a self driving car is science fiction.

Yeah, it's all scifi posturing. Same with the "Optimus will begin colonising Mars in 2026" line that they were still pushing just a few months ago.

There's perhaps a chance that some part of it might happen someday, but right now the main thing is to distract attention from Tesla's lack of model development and SpaceX's much-vaunted AI business being based on reselling datacentre space at a loss.


For what it's worth they aren't reselling at a loss but rather at an eye watering profit [0].

[0] This assumes Anthropic and Google actually keep paying for at least 1 year of the signed 3, since they can cancel their contracts easily.


Most SOTA humanoid robots use transformers, which are also at the core of LLMs. They also use NVIDIA GPUs for simulation training.

If they are useful for humanoid robots, why aren't they useful for self driving cars, which are just robots of a different shape?

> What do electric cars and rockets have in common?

Electric motors? I imagine there are differences but the super heavy grid fins are electrically actuated (I have heard these motors were sourced from Tesla, though I don't have a great reference for that on hand). The thrust vectoring is also electrically actuated... again, I imagine there are differences of what's on the rocket and what's in the cars... but there are cross over areas of research and engineering.

Also, in a hand-wavy way, rovers share some traits with electric cars; again electric motors, wheels, steering, etc.

So while I don't believe a traditional car company is exactly trying to build space hardened/ready equipment in the normal course of business... it's not as far fetched as some combinations could be.


Stop asking those questions and just give him your money already.

I am questioning synergies of Tesla and Tesla and SpaceX and SpaceX. So Tesla and Tesla and SpaceX and SpaceX... Is just all that cubed...

> What do electric cars and rockets have in common?

A majority shareholder.


Per the article, there are already co-invested in building Elons chip megafab.

If you are doing vertical integration, there are lots of common technologies and skills.


As demonstrated by the roadster, Tesla cars make great test masses for rockets!

Batteries and solar panels in space/mars/moon.

What do you want? Him to act in the shareholder's interest or something?

He's a shareholder, he acts in his own interest, therefore he's acting on a shareholder's interest!

Of course. That's the one and only goal.

Why? Well, as Cory Doctorow said at the talk I attended earlier this week, they do this for the same reason a dog licks his balls: because they can and no one will stop them.


Can a kid set up an AWS account? Are there no checks?

Wouldn't the contract be void for anyone underage anyway?


If a child goes through the checkout at the grocery store with cash, can the parent march in and demand a refund because "he's underage so the contract is void"? A credit card was used. Why should aws care about the details? (Other than the potential for the card to be stolen ofc.)

Obviously the specifics vary by jurisdiction, but usually contracts that are 'necessary' (e.g. grocery store purchases) or beneficial to the minor (e.g. an employment agreement) cannot be voided simply because someone is under 18.

The further you go away from this line, e.g. a mortgage, the more likely a court of law would void the contract. As with many things in law, the specifics (if it makes to trial) is case-by-case and "it depends"; with settlement being generally based on a party's estimated chances of succeeding/costs should it go to trial.


> If a child goes through the checkout at the grocery store with cash, can the parent march in and demand a refund because "he's underage so the contract is void"?

Depends on the jurisdiction, of course. But for example in German law, the contract is not void exactly because and only if it was about daily necessities of low value - the law does, in fact, care very literally and explicitly about those details. So it's completely unfit as an example to generalize, and the contract with AWS would in fact be void. Their problem if they don't verify users' identities and age sufficiently - and it's almost certainly a deliberate business decision not to do that in order to reduce friction. and occasionally write off an unenforceable bill as cost of doing business.


Can a German child buy non-essential expensive things, like a concert ticket, console, Warhammer or whatever? (Or a video game, back when those were sold in shops.)

I bought these things while a child in the UK. I'm sure Games Workshop would have offered a refund on something unopened if my parents had demanded it, but I'm fairly sure the ticket agency would not.


The generally agreed limit (also established in court cases) is the amount of pocket money a child of the given age typically gets per month. For a 10 year old, that's about 20 EUR, for a 16 year old about 50 EUR. A console would definitely be too expensive, as would be big name concert tickets. Unless it's a recent AAA title, video games would be OK. No idea what Warhammer costs these days.

Most retailers are probably willing to take the risk of maybe having to do a refund, unless it's something really expensive (or perishable/consumable).


There are definitely limits in some countries relative to the US. I was in university at 16. My parents were covering a lot of costs but I was certainly making regular purchases of all manner of things. My understanding is that would perhaps be something of an issue some places.

Well fair enough, although I find that rather surprising. If I understand you correctly selling anything more expensive than cheap food to a child carries a high degree of risk in Germany.

Then again, maybe making it impossible for a child to pawn expensive items for cash isn't such a bad idea. At least there shouldn't be any loopholes given the way Germany went about it.


Doing any business at all in Germany carries extreme business risk, by American standards. The attitude of Germans seems to be to just live with it and maybe get insurance. If you just have to accept courts will void 1% of your transactions (costing another 2% in legal fees) then you just make everything 5% more expensive to cover it.

This is why there's not much big tech in Germany. A single legal dispute can theoretically bankrupt any company, completely at random, at no fault of the company, but practically doesn't. It may be a low enough chance to justify investing thousands but nobody would invest a hundred million dollars in that.


> If you just have to accept courts will void 1% of your transactions (costing another 2% in legal fees) then you just make everything 5% more expensive to cover it.

That's an absurd exaggeration in regard to the issue at hand. Almost certainly far less than 1% of purchases by minors are voided, and NONE of those involve legal fees unless the seller chooses to go to court rather than refund.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet money that there are overall far less purchases refunded in Germany than in the USA.


There are more reasons a business can be sued than just that a minor bought something and regrets it.

> If I understand you correctly selling anything more expensive than cheap food to a child carries a high degree of risk in Germany.

Basically yes - the limit is generally considered to be the amount of monthly pocket money children typically get, so around 20 EUR for a 10 year old. And it would be possible for the seller to ask for a signed note of consent from the parent.

And of course the risk is limited to possibly having to revert the sale, which would be fairly rare for things that are just somewhat over that limit. Educated guess about how high the risk is for any given case are probably not hard.


> Can a kid set up an AWS account?

Yes

> Are there no checks?

No

>Wouldn't the contract be void for anyone underage anyway?

Typically not


I knew that in Germany contracts with minors are voidable. After some checking they apparently are voidable in the U.S. as well:

> Contracts with minors are voidable at the minor's discretion but exceptions exist, such as contracts for necessities (e.g., food, health, and transportation).

[1] https://www.upcounsel.com/minors-and-contracts


Presumably companies can't enforce debts against children [who are under the age of criminal liability, which is under-10 in UK].

Could they enforce them against their legal guardians (under the theory that they have neglected their duty to supervise their children appropriately) though? I think this is a thing in at least some jurisdictions.

In Poland legal guardians are responsible for neglects in guarding child. What is "proper custody" depends on child age. Parent cannot close child in basement, it is expected for child to have freedom appropriate to is age.

I doubt that AWS could justify that part of proper child custody is to watch what child do with newest AI feature dedicated for processional IT. AWS neglected proper verification of user age.


OpenSuse is (or will be) "Euro-Linux".

Mageia's also a fine European distro.

Suse has more packages in their repo. But, I prefer Mageia's control center to yast.


This looks very repetitive and not-fun to build.

Yeah I agree. 12k pieces except you're building 100 pillars and 100 spires, all the same.

On the other hand, crafts like knitting and other fiber arts can be very repetitive and people still enjoy them.

(Personally, I've also enjoyed unit origami, which involves folding the same module many times over and assembling them.)


fair enough

I just checked and there is even a seller on Amazon delivering in the U.S., so it shouldn't be too hard to get.


"Thumbs" down


You mean up. Question.


Amaze!


Fist my bump


Just before the outage happened I updated multiple client servers. That was a very stressfull hour trying to figure out why nothing works.


Has anyone used this and ansible and is able to give a short comparison with likes and dislikes?


I switched from Ansible to Pyinfra for my homelab, and continue to use Ansible at work.

The biggest difference is that Pyinfra is simply Python code. It's incredibly easy to control the system in whatever manner you need to. You can probably do the same thing in Ansible, but it's never quite as obvious how to do it. This also means it's much more clear where and why things work the way they do in Pyinfra, where in Ansible I end up digging through numerous role files to try to find where some variable gets injected.


Just having "home/docker.py" instead of "collections/ansible_collections/home/dev/roles/docker/tasks/main.yml" is reason enough. Which one of the 300 main.yml files do I load when doing a quick open in any modern text editor?


The worst part of Ansible is data manipulation, what would be an easy dictionary operation in Python is a huge mix of lookups in Ansible.

Incredibly frustrating that the data you want is right there but you can't easily grab it.


If Jinja templating for data manipulation gets too complex or inconvenient, you can create your own module in ansible and use python code for data manipulation. But at this point you are better served with plain python which I think is where pyinfra should shine. I want to take a look though at how hard it is to implement your own module for it.


If you're doing data manipulation with server state, you would probably want to create a Fact[0]. This is a straightforward Python class.

If you're doing data manipulation locally you would simply write Python code.

Operations[1] are Python functions which execute (yield) commands which will be run on hosts.

That's the gist of what it takes to write custom modules for Pyinfra.

[0] https://docs.pyinfra.com/en/3.x/api/facts.html [1] https://docs.pyinfra.com/en/3.x/api/operations.html


Pyinfra is what ansible should have been. It's straight python rather than a janky mix of yaml, templates, and bolted-on control flow primitives.


There is this: https://github.com/seantis/suitable

But the main guy who developed it at that company left, so no idea on its longevity.


Oh hey that's me! Yeah I don't think you would want to use this, it was never used outside some smaller automation utils afaik.


Yeah I guess; I'm generally not a fan of solving a problem by adding another layer of shit on top.


I used ansible for building simple logging appliance (something like Elasticsearch + Dashboards + other tooling) and I found it very difficult to reason with specifically python code snippets within YAML.

Switched to Pyinfra and the difference is day and night. You write python code you can organise your stuff into functions, classes and whatever you like and then instantiate them as you like. Highly reusable configuration.

You have full pwoer such as you can call boto to fetch the list of servers to target, filter base on tags and what not. Only sky is the limit because it is NOT a DSL (or YAML) rather full blow real python.


At a previous job we used it to test our ansible playbooks via molecule, which were part of a CI/CD pipeline to create AWS AMIs.

It worked well and was nicer to deal with than test kitchen for testing UNIXy things (is service running and/or enabled, does file have right permissions, does file include $TEXT, etc). It was very useful for us during big linux upgrades, such as when ubuntu went from upstart to systemd. It can also be good at capturing edge cases with brittle outcomes (especially as ansible went through enormous changes after the red hat acquisition).

Dislikes? I had to fight with pyenvs a bit..


was this before uv? i feel like my pyenv struggles basically ceased once I started using it


I used it between 20016-2023 and since we were not a python shop, I never used any other package managers. It was never an issue with CI/CD pipeline, but iterating locally was always a fight to getting molecule to pick up the right pyenv. It got better towards the end, though.

Honestly the bigger issue was testing x86 docker images on an arm mac, as molecule didn't cleanly support cross platform images and we did pull in x86 binaries for our playbooks (by the end of my time at said company, I was also directly managed by product managers who didn't care about tech debt and I couldn't deal with the otherwise desirable idea to move our compute to ARM - a rant for another day). This may also be fixed now.


Adding to sibling comments: I used to use Ansible professionally and PyInfra for homelab. Ansible is ridiculously slow.

The only issue was I had to implement some facts and operations myself that probably were available in some Ansible package but to be honest it was trivial.


Ansible includes modules to handle cloud resources as well, such as AWS Lambda.


Can you give a source on this? I can't belive this to be remotely true.


You correct, you are allowed to "break" patent law in Germany, if the use is private and non-commercial. This does not encompass schools and science though.


Research is permitted, if the protected invention is commercially available, as far as I know. E.g. medical research. I believe, this means use for research cannot be restricted once commercially available. I am not sure, if it's limited to medicine in Germany. The US has similar exceptions for medical research AFAIK.

Sadly there is indeed no blanket permission for public research and education in Germany, either. There is little point mentioning it, but HN rate-limited my account, so I couldn't edit or comment to clarify in time.

I am not advocating for the German patent system, I just think the US is particularly ridiculous prohibiting personal reproduction and use. Like, you got a lathe, lab, computer or 3D printer and are literally prohibited to use it as you please, not allowed create certain mechanisms, substances, shapes and functions, for your own use, or even survival, without (possibly) harming anyone else.


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